Class NTPClient' has no member named 'getFormattedDate'; did you mean 'getFormattedTime'?

Czecher · February 10, 2023, 4:52pm

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Ok…the weird think is that I can remove all the reference to Blynk and the code compiles without errors. If I add the blynk definitions in it throws

“‘class NTPClient’ has no member named ‘getFormattedDate’; did you mean ‘getFormattedTime’?”

I have updated the correct NTPClient that contains the getFormattedDate() Method in the library but that didn’t help. Any help would be appreciated. I really need the current date and time for this project.




/* Fill-in information from Blynk Device Info here */
#define BLYNK_TEMPLATE_ID           "TMPLTpm9mxiz"
#define BLYNK_TEMPLATE_NAME         "ZoneControllerTemplate"
#define BLYNK_AUTH_TOKEN            "bR_vqWl0tKq20IyA5Qk0DEjMMxjOB8xv"

/* Comment this out to disable prints and save space */
#define BLYNK_PRINT Serial


#include "WiFi.h"
#include "WiFiClient.h"
#include "Dusk2Dawn.h"
#include <Time.h>
#include "RTClib.h"
#include <NTPClient.h>
#include <WiFiUdp.h>
#include <BlynkSimpleEsp32.h>

int dawnTime = 0;
int duskTime = 0;
int doorOpenTime = 0;
int doorCloseTime = 0;
int wateringCyclesDone = 0;
int manualWateringTime = 0;
int manualWateringTimeLeft = 0;
int lastMin = 0;

String dawnTimeStr = "";
String duskTimeStr = "";
String doorOpenTimeStr = "";
String doorCloseTimeStr = "";

int iMonth = 2;
int iDay = 16;
int iYear = 2020;

int iHour = 2;
int iMin = 16;
int iSec = 0;

const int ledPin =  13;// the number of the LED pin
int ledState = LOW;

const int ON = LOW;
const int OFF = LOW;

boolean daylightSavingsTime = false;
boolean dstAdjusted = false;
boolean springDstAdjusted = false;
boolean fallDstAdjusted = false;
boolean doorClosed = false;
boolean doorOpen = false;
boolean heaterOn = false;
boolean heaterManualOn = false;
boolean heaterOff = true;
boolean fenceOn = false;
boolean fenceOff = true;
boolean fenceManualOn = false;
boolean circulation = false;
boolean dawnDuskTimesUpdated = false;
double tempF = 0.0;

RTC_DS3231 rtc;
float  temperature = 0.0;

char daysOfTheWeek[7][12] = {"Sunday", "Monday", "Tuesday", "Wednesday", "Thursday", "Friday", "Saturday"};

String currentTime = "";

BlynkTimer timer;

//char auth[] = "OCVpPCNgNSSGEyAA3YTjYfC1JH-c6mcY";

WiFiUDP ntpUDP;
NTPClient timeClient(ntpUDP);

// Variables to save date and time
String formattedDate;
String dateStamp;
String dayStamp;
String mthStamp;
String yearStamp;
String timeStamp;

const int RELAY1 = 18;
const int RELAY2 = 19;
const int RELAY3 = 27;
const int RELAY4 = 33;
const int RELAY5 = 15;
const int RELAY6 = 32;
const int RELAY7 = 14;
const int RELAY8 = 5;


void myTimerEvent()
{
}


int getDawnTime(int month, int day, int year) {
  Dusk2Dawn tomballTx(30.136307, -95.683519, -6);
  return tomballTx.sunrise(year, month, day, daylightSavingsTime);
}

int getDuskTime(int month, int day, int year) {
  Dusk2Dawn tomballTx(30.136307, -95.683519, -6);
  return tomballTx.sunset(year, month, day, daylightSavingsTime);
}

void setTime(int year, int month, int day, int hour, int min, int sec) {
  rtc.adjust(DateTime(year, month, day, hour, min, sec));
}

void openDoor() {
  digitalWrite(RELAY1, LOW);
  doorOpen = true;
  doorClosed = false;
  Serial.print("Door is opening");
  delay(5000);
  ledState = HIGH;
  digitalWrite(ledPin, ledState);
  digitalWrite(RELAY1, HIGH);
  dawnDuskTimesUpdated = false;
}

void closeDoor() {
  digitalWrite(RELAY2, LOW);
  doorClosed = true;
  doorOpen = false;
  delay(5000);
  Serial.print("Door Closed");
  ledState = LOW;
  digitalWrite(ledPin, ledState);
  digitalWrite(RELAY2, HIGH);
  dawnDuskTimesUpdated = false;
}

void turnFenceOn() {
  fenceOn = true;
  fenceOff = false;
  Serial.print("Electric Fence is On");
  digitalWrite(RELAY8, LOW);
}

void turnFenceOff() {
  fenceOff = true;
  fenceOn = false;
  Serial.print("Electric Fence is Off");
  digitalWrite(RELAY8, HIGH);
}

void turnHeaterOn() {
  heaterOn = true;
  heaterOff = false;
  Serial.print("Heater is On");
  digitalWrite(RELAY6, HIGH);
  digitalWrite(RELAY7, HIGH);
}

void turnHeaterOff() {
  heaterOn = false;
  heaterOff = true;

  Serial.print("Heater is Off");
  digitalWrite(RELAY6, HIGH);
  digitalWrite(RELAY7, HIGH);
}

void circPumpOn() {
  circulation = true;
  Serial.print("Circ Pump is On");
  digitalWrite(RELAY3, LOW);
  digitalWrite(RELAY4, LOW);
  digitalWrite(RELAY5, LOW);
}

void circPumpOff() {
  circulation = false;
  Serial.print("Circ Pump is Off");
  digitalWrite(RELAY3, HIGH);
  digitalWrite(RELAY4, HIGH);
  digitalWrite(RELAY5, HIGH);
}

void getDawnDuskTimes() {
  if (WiFi.status() == WL_CONNECTED) {
    dawnTime = getDawnTime(iMonth, iDay, iYear);
    doorOpenTime = dawnTime - 30;
    duskTime = getDuskTime(iMonth, iDay, iYear);
    doorCloseTime = duskTime + 60;
  }

  Serial.println(dawnTime);  // 418
  Serial.println(duskTime);   // 1004

  Serial.println(doorOpenTime);  // 418
  Serial.println(doorCloseTime);   // 1004

  char time[6];
  Dusk2Dawn::min2str(time, dawnTime);
  dawnTimeStr = time;
  Serial.println("The Sun rises at ");
  Serial.println(time); // 06:58

  char time2[] = "00:00";
  Dusk2Dawn::min2str(time2, duskTime);
  duskTimeStr = time2;
  Serial.println("The Sun sets at ");
  Serial.println(time2); // 16:53
  Serial.println("");

  char odTime[6];
  Dusk2Dawn::min2str(odTime, doorOpenTime);
  doorOpenTimeStr = odTime;
  Serial.println("Door opens at ");
  Serial.println(odTime); // 06:58

  char cdTime2[] = "00:00";
  Dusk2Dawn::min2str(cdTime2, doorCloseTime);
  doorCloseTimeStr = cdTime2;
  Serial.println("Door closes at ");
  Serial.println(cdTime2); // 16:53
  Serial.println("");
  dawnDuskTimesUpdated = true;
}



BLYNK_WRITE(V0)
{
  int pinValue = param.asInt(); // assigning incoming value from pin V1 to a variable
  if (pinValue == 1) {
    openDoor();
  }
}

BLYNK_WRITE(V1)
{
  int pinValue = param.asInt(); // assigning incoming value from pin V1 to a variable
  if (pinValue == 1) {
    closeDoor();
  }
}

BLYNK_WRITE(V2)
{
  int pinValue = param.asInt(); // assigning incoming value from pin V1 to a variable
  if (pinValue == 1) {
    turnHeaterOn();
    heaterManualOn = true;
  }

  if (pinValue == 0) {
    turnHeaterOff();
  }
}

BLYNK_WRITE(V14)
{
  int pinValue = param.asInt(); // assigning incoming value from pin V1 to a variable
  if (pinValue == 1) {
    turnFenceOn();
  }

  if (pinValue == 0) {
    turnFenceOff();
  }
}

BLYNK_WRITE(V3)
{
  int pinValue = param.asInt(); // assigning incoming value from pin V1 to a variable
  if (pinValue == 1) {
    circPumpOn();
  }

  if (pinValue == 0) {
    circPumpOff();
    manualWateringTime = 0;
    manualWateringTimeLeft = 0;
  }
}

BLYNK_WRITE(V4)
{
  int pinValue = param.asInt(); // assigning incoming value from pin V1 to a variable
  if (pinValue != 0) {
    manualWateringTime = pinValue;
  }
}

BLYNK_WRITE(V16)
{
  int pinValue = param.asInt(); // assigning incoming value from pin V1 to a variable
  if (pinValue == 1) {
    daylightSavingsTime = true;
    dstAdjusted = false;
  }

  if (pinValue == 0) {
    daylightSavingsTime = false;
    dstAdjusted = false;
  }
}



void setup() {

  Serial.begin(115200);
  int count = 0;





  // Set pinMode for RELAYs 1-4 to OUTPUT
  pinMode(RELAY1, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(RELAY2, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(RELAY3, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(RELAY4, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(RELAY5, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(RELAY6, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(RELAY7, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(RELAY8, OUTPUT);

  digitalWrite(RELAY1, HIGH);
  digitalWrite(RELAY2, HIGH);
  digitalWrite(RELAY3, HIGH);
  digitalWrite(RELAY4, HIGH);
  digitalWrite(RELAY5, HIGH);
  digitalWrite(RELAY6, HIGH);
  digitalWrite(RELAY7, HIGH);
  digitalWrite(RELAY8, HIGH);

  pinMode(ledPin, OUTPUT);




  Serial.print("Attempting WiFi connection");
  WiFi.reconnect(); //or reconnect they work about the same
  while (WiFi.status() != WL_CONNECTED) {
    if (count > 9) break;
    Serial.print(".");
    Serial.println("Connecting...." );
    Serial.println(count);
    
    WiFi.begin();
    delay (2000);
    count++;
  }

  if (WiFi.status() != WL_CONNECTED) {
    WiFi.mode(WIFI_AP_STA);
    WiFi.beginSmartConfig();

    Serial.println("Waiting for SmartConfig.");
    while (!WiFi.smartConfigDone()) {
      delay(500);
      Serial.print(".");

    }
    Serial.println("");
    Serial.println("SmartConfig done.");

    Serial.println("Waiting for WiFi");

    while (WiFi.status() != WL_CONNECTED) {
      delay(500);
      Serial.print(".");
    }
    Serial.print("WiFi Connected.\nIP Address: ");
    Serial.println(WiFi.localIP());
  
  }


  Serial.println("WiFi Connected.\nIP Address: ");
  Serial.println(WiFi.localIP());



  Blynk.begin(BLYNK_AUTH_TOKEN, WiFi.SSID().c_str(), WiFi.psk().c_str());
//Blynk.begin(BLYNK_AUTH_TOKEN, ssid, pass);
  // You can also specify server:
  //Blynk.begin(BLYNK_AUTH_TOKEN, ssid, pass, "blynk.cloud", 80);
  //Blynk.begin(BLYNK_AUTH_TOKEN, ssid, pass, IPAddress(192,168,1,100), 8080);

  // Setup a function to be called every second
  timer.setInterval(1000L, myTimerEvent);

  timeClient.begin();
  // Set offset time in seconds to adjust for your timezone, for example:
  // GMT +1 = 3600
  // GMT +8 = 28800
  // GMT -1 = -3600
  // GMT 0 = 0
  timeClient.setTimeOffset(-21600);

  if (! rtc.begin()) {
    Serial.println("Couldn't find RTC");
    while (1);
  }


  if (rtc.lostPower()) {
    Serial.println("RTC lost power, lets set the time!");
    // following line sets the RTC to the date & time this sketch was compiled
    rtc.adjust(DateTime(F(__DATE__), F(__TIME__)));
    // This line sets the RTC with an explicit date & time, for example to set
    // January 21, 2014 at 3am you would call:
    // rtc.adjust(DateTime(2014, 1, 21, 3, 0, 0));
  }

  while (!timeClient.update()) {
    timeClient.forceUpdate();
  }
  // The formattedDate comes with the following format:
  // 2018-05-28T16:00:13Z
  // We need to extract date and time
  formattedDate = timeClient.getFormattedDate();

  // Extract date
  int splitT = formattedDate.indexOf("T");
  dateStamp = formattedDate.substring(0, splitT);


  // Extract year
  yearStamp = dateStamp.substring(0, 4);
  iYear = yearStamp.toInt();

  // Extract month
  mthStamp = dateStamp.substring(5, 7);
  iMonth = mthStamp.toInt();


  // Extract day
  dayStamp = formattedDate.substring(8, 10);
  iDay = dayStamp.toInt();

  Serial.print("DATE: ");
  Serial.print(iMonth);
  Serial.print("-");
  Serial.print(iDay);
  Serial.print("-");
  Serial.print(iYear);

  Serial.println("");

  getDawnDuskTimes();




  // Extract time
  timeStamp = formattedDate.substring(splitT + 1, formattedDate.length() - 1);

  delay(1000);

  // Extract time
  iHour = timeStamp.substring(0, 2).toInt();
  iMin = timeStamp.substring(3, 5).toInt();
  iSec = timeStamp.substring(7, 9).toInt();
  Serial.print("Time: ");
  Serial.print(iHour);
  Serial.print(":");
  Serial.print(iMin);
  Serial.print(":");
  Serial.print(iSec);
  Serial.println("");
  Serial.println("");
  Serial.println(timeStamp);

  setTime(iYear, iMonth, iDay, iHour, iMin, iSec);


}







void loop(){

  if (daylightSavingsTime && fallDstAdjusted && !dstAdjusted){
    iHour = iHour -1;
    setTime(iYear, iMonth, iDay, iHour, iMin, iSec);
    springDstAdjusted = true;
    fallDstAdjusted = false;
    dstAdjusted = true;
    getDawnDuskTimes();
  }

  if (!daylightSavingsTime && springDstAdjusted && !dstAdjusted){
    iHour = iHour +1;
    setTime(iYear, iMonth, iDay, iHour, iMin, iSec);
    springDstAdjusted = false;
    fallDstAdjusted = true;
    dstAdjusted = true;
    getDawnDuskTimes();
  }
  

  iMin = currentTime.substring(3, 5).toInt();

  //digitalWrite(V9, HIGH);
  if (doorOpen) {
    Blynk.virtualWrite(V9, 1023);
  }
  if (doorClosed) {
    Blynk.virtualWrite(V9, 0);
  }

  if (circulation) {
    Blynk.virtualWrite(V10, 1023);
  } else {
    Blynk.virtualWrite(V10, 0);
  }

  if (heaterOn) {
    Blynk.virtualWrite(V11, 1023);
  } else {
    Blynk.virtualWrite(V11, 0);
  }

  if (fenceOn) {
    Blynk.virtualWrite(V15, 1023);
  } else {
    Blynk.virtualWrite(V15, 0);
  }

  Blynk.virtualWrite(V12, doorOpenTimeStr);
  Blynk.virtualWrite(V13, doorCloseTimeStr);
  Blynk.virtualWrite(V5, dawnTimeStr);
  Blynk.virtualWrite(V6, duskTimeStr);
  Blynk.virtualWrite(V7, currentTime);
  Blynk.virtualWrite(V8, tempF);
  Blynk.virtualWrite(V14, manualWateringTimeLeft);
  Blynk.virtualWrite(V15, wateringCyclesDone);



  DateTime now = rtc.now();

  Serial.print(now.year(), DEC);
  Serial.print('/');
  Serial.print(now.month(), DEC);
  Serial.print('/');
  Serial.print(now.day(), DEC);
  Serial.print(" (");
  Serial.print(daysOfTheWeek[now.dayOfTheWeek()]);
  Serial.print(") ");
  Serial.print(now.hour(), DEC);
  Serial.print(':');
  Serial.print(now.minute(), DEC);
  Serial.print(':');
  Serial.print(now.second(), DEC);
  Serial.println();

  char buf1[] = "hh:mm";
  currentTime = now.toString(buf1);
  Serial.println(currentTime);
  Serial.println(dawnTimeStr);
  Serial.println(duskTimeStr);

  if (doorOpenTimeStr.equals(currentTime) && doorOpen == false) {
    Serial.println("It is dawn - open door");
    openDoor();
  }

  if (doorCloseTimeStr.equals(currentTime) && doorClosed == false) {
    Serial.println("It is dusk - closed door");
    closeDoor();
  }

  if (currentTime.equals("00:00") && dawnDuskTimesUpdated == false) {
    Serial.println("It's midnight update dawn & dusk times");
    getDawnDuskTimes();
    wateringCyclesDone = 0;
  }

  if (currentTime.equals("06:00") && circulation == false) {
    Serial.println("Turning Circ Pump On");
    circPumpOn();
    wateringCyclesDone += 1;
  }

  if (currentTime.equals("06:30") && circulation == true) {
    Serial.println("Turning Circ Pump Off");
    circPumpOff();
  }

  if (currentTime.equals("14:00") && circulation == false) {
    Serial.println("Turning Circ Pump On");
    circPumpOn();
    wateringCyclesDone += 1;
  }

  if (currentTime.equals("14:30") && circulation == true) {
    Serial.println("Turning Circ Pump Off");
    circPumpOff();
  }

  if (currentTime.equals("22:00") && circulation == false) {
    Serial.println("Turning Circ Pump On");
    circPumpOn();
    wateringCyclesDone += 1;
  }

  if (currentTime.equals("22:30") && circulation == true) {
    Serial.println("Turning Circ Pump Off");
    circPumpOff();
  }

  if (manualWateringTime != 0.0 && circulation == false) {
    Serial.println("Manual watering started");
    lastMin = iMin;
    manualWateringTimeLeft = manualWateringTime;
    circPumpOn();
  }

  if (manualWateringTime != 0.0 && circulation == true) {
    if (lastMin != iMin) {
      manualWateringTimeLeft--;
      lastMin = iMin;
    }
    if (manualWateringTimeLeft == -1) {
      manualWateringTime = 0.0;
      manualWateringTimeLeft = 0.0;
      Serial.println("Manual watering finished");
      circPumpOff();
    }

  }







temperature = (rtc.getTemperature()); //read temperature

tempF = (((temperature * 1.8) + 32.0) - 10.0);

Serial.print(tempF); //print temperature as a float
Serial.println(" F");

if (tempF < 40.0 && heaterOff) {
  turnHeaterOn();
}

if (tempF > 45.0 && heaterOn && !heaterManualOn) {
  turnHeaterOff();
}


  if (duskTimeStr.equals(currentTime) && fenceOn == false) {
    Serial.println("It is dusk - energise fence");
    turnFenceOn();
  }

  if (dawnTimeStr.equals(currentTime) && fenceOff == false) {
    Serial.println("It is dawn - de-energise fence");
    turnFenceOff();
  }
  

  Blynk.run();
  timer.run();
  // You can inject your own code or combine it with other sketches.
  // Check other examples on how to communicate with Blynk. Remember
  // to avoid delay() function!
}

John93 · February 10, 2023, 5:05pm

First of all, you should read this

This error message is indicating that the class NTPClient does not have a member (i.e. a function or a variable) named “getFormattedDate”. The error message is suggesting that perhaps you meant to use “getFormattedTime” instead.

Czecher · February 10, 2023, 6:33pm

Thanks for your reply…I understand that…but if you read the entire text …why does it compile when I take out all reference to blynk?
This is code that has been running for over 5 years…I just am updating it for the new Blynk IOT.

John93 · February 10, 2023, 10:22pm

I’m using the NTPClient library with the latest version of the Blynk library, and everything works as expected, so I know for sure that it’s not a compatibility issue. It’s most likely a coding error.

Czecher · February 10, 2023, 11:06pm

Can you send me your code where it makes the getFormattedDate() method call? If I leave the Blynk references in and change to the getformattedTime() method call everything works fine…But that is not what I need…I need the date as well as the time.

John93 · February 10, 2023, 11:37pm

I’m not home at the moment. I’ll send you my sketch as soon as I get home.

I guess you’re not using the right library. Try this one

PeteKnight · February 11, 2023, 1:01am

Why are you using an external NTP time source rather than the Blynk RTC functionality?

Also, why are you manually establishing a WiFi connection then using Blynk.begin

Pete.

Czecher · February 11, 2023, 2:46am

If i simply use the RTC I have to worry about setting it at some point…Using NTP I can update the RTC automatically on boot up. I use smart config as I don’t feel comfortable hard coding the WIFI credentials also I can easily swap from one WIFI SSID to another with changing code.

PeteKnight · February 11, 2023, 2:55am

I think you’ve misunderstood me.
I was referring to the

as an alternative to NTP as a current source of the correct time, not RTC hardware.

Reading the Blynk RTC documentation would probably help.

In that case, you’d be better using Blynk Edgent, as this also gives additional functionality such as Blynk.Air support.

You might solve your immediate problem by moving your ‘#include’ statements around, so the Blynk ones are first, or using a different NTP library (it’s always good practice to include a link to the GitHub page for the actual library you are using, along with details of the library version you have installed, in the comments for your code).

Pete.

John93 · February 11, 2023, 7:15am

Here’s a basic Blynk NTPClient sketch.

#define BLYNK_TEMPLATE_ID           "TMPxxxxxx"
#define BLYNK_TEMPLATE_NAME         "Device"
#define BLYNK_AUTH_TOKEN            "YourAuthToken"

#define BLYNK_PRINT Serial

#include <WiFi.h>
#include <WiFiClient.h>
#include <BlynkSimpleEsp32.h>
#include <NTPClient.h>
#include <WiFiUdp.h>

char auth[] = BLYNK_AUTH_TOKEN;

// Your WiFi credentials.
// Set password to "" for open networks.
char ssid[] = "YourNetworkName";
char pass[] = "YourPassword";

WiFiUDP ntpUDP;
NTPClient timeClient(ntpUDP, "pool.ntp.org");

//Week Days
String weekDays[7]={"Sunday", "Monday", "Tuesday", "Wednesday", "Thursday", "Friday", "Saturday"};
//Month names
String months[12]={"January", "February", "March", "April", "May", "June", "July", "August", "September", "October", "November", "December"};


BlynkTimer timer;

void setup()
{
  // Debug console
Serial.begin(115200);



Blynk.begin(auth, ssid, pass);
  // You can also specify server:
  //Blynk.begin(auth, ssid, pass, "blynk.cloud", 80);
  //Blynk.begin(auth, ssid, pass, IPAddress(192,168,1,100), 8080);

timeClient.begin();
  // Set offset time in seconds to adjust for your timezone, for example:
timeClient.begin();
timeClient.setTimeOffset(10800);
timer.setInterval(1000L, check);
}

void loop()
{
  Blynk.run();
  timer.run();
}

void check()
{

  timeClient.update();

  time_t epochTime = timeClient.getEpochTime();
  Serial.print("Epoch Time: ");
  Serial.println(epochTime);
          
  String formattedTime = timeClient.getFormattedTime();
  Serial.print("Formatted Time: ");
  Serial.println(formattedTime);  

  int currentHour = timeClient.getHours();
  Serial.print("Hour: ");
  Serial.println(currentHour);  

  int currentMinute = timeClient.getMinutes();
  Serial.print("Minutes: ");
  Serial.println(currentMinute); 
                               
  int currentSecond = timeClient.getSeconds();
  Serial.print("Seconds: ");
  Serial.println(currentSecond);  

  String weekDay = weekDays[timeClient.getDay()];
  Serial.print("Week Day: ");
  Serial.println(weekDay);    

  //Get a time structure
  struct tm *ptm = gmtime ((time_t *)&epochTime); 

  int monthDay = ptm->tm_mday;
  Serial.print("Month day: ");
  Serial.println(monthDay);

  int currentMonth = ptm->tm_mon+1;
  Serial.print("Month: ");
  Serial.println(currentMonth);

  String currentMonthName = months[currentMonth-1];
  Serial.print("Month name: ");
  Serial.println(currentMonthName);

  int currentYear = ptm->tm_year+1900;
  Serial.print("Year: ");
  Serial.println(currentYear);

  //Print complete date:
  String currentDate = String(currentYear) + "-" + String(currentMonth) + "-" + String(monthDay);
  Serial.print("Current date: ");
  Serial.println(currentDate);
  Serial.println("");

}

Czecher · February 23, 2023, 10:57pm

Looking at the sketch you sent it doesn’t use getFormattedDate method…but I ended up figuring it out on my own…Seems Blynk somehow was overriding the NTP client in my library. I ended up changing the name of the NTP Client folder in the library and in the sketch and Viola!!! So for all you guys that have had this error and were told that it is “DUE TO A CODING ERROR” it isn’t!!! Hope this ends up helping others that are in my predicament.